Fuck you, VW. Fuck. You.

"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
10/19/2014 at 19:12 • Filed to: None

Fuck you and your idiotic internal spline type wheel locks. I've got a 4lb sledge you can use to do the anatomically impossible... Still is no match for a sledge and a 3/4 inch socket and breaker bar.

(Sorry, Oppo, but I've been dealing with these damn things on the S4 for the last three days, and they are finally off)

DISCUSSION (38)

whoarder is tellurium > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 19:15

Germans: Serrated 12 pt bits and Torx. Torx everywhere.

dogisbadob > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 19:18

Why out up with German engineering when you can have real engineering? :p

Just get a 12-pt socket a very tiny bit smaller than it and hammer it in. (for example, if that one is 19mm, get an 18mm socket)

deekster_caddy > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 19:37

Thanks for reminding me, I keep meaning to get a set of regular bolts for our Passat. I've been pretty careful with them and only put them on with a torque wrench, so they aren't that hard to get off, but someone else is going to do those someday and lose the damn key.

JGrabowMSt > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 19:41

Wheel locks are so poorly designed it's ridiculous.

Rather than making it one stupid goddamn lug nut that's different, sell the cars with all fancy lug nuts and a proper tire iron to remove them with. My sister has a shredded wheel lock right now, and needs to just take it to my friend's shop for removal. Then my dad stepped in and I have no idea. I'm avoiding that situation honestly. I don't want to know what's going on with it. My friend assured me his shop can get it off safely, and that's all I need to hear about it.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > deekster_caddy
10/19/2014 at 19:46

And that is the major issue I have with wheel locks.

Previous owner of my S4 (my brother) swears the key is in the car, but a friend and I have scoured the interior looking for it, because knowing him, it wouldn't be in the toolkit.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > dogisbadob
10/19/2014 at 19:47

We had SAE sockets lying around (but I don't use SAE, because Germans...), so sacrificing a 3/4 inch socket was fine.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > whoarder is tellurium
10/19/2014 at 19:48

Torx are fine. Torx are good, because you can get the proper sized heads for it easily.

The Audi dealer wouldn't take them off. Because pretentious.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > JGrabowMSt
10/19/2014 at 19:50

Since this is a track car, I really do not care if someone wants the Avus 17 inchers (especially since Audi sold 18 inch Avus wheels on the B6 S4, and those are more common).

But don't get me started on the fact that the last shop decided that the best way to tighten the lugs was an impact gun on shop air.

I've broken two socket adapters and a breaker bar (old crappy one I use first for stuff like this) so far in the attempt to get these lug bolts off.

Goddamn idiots with shop air and an impact gun.

JGrabowMSt > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 19:59

I hear you. Not that losing a set of wheels is great, but I'd rather the peace of mind not having trouble getting them off when I need to. Flat tire + broken wheel lock? Embarrassing AAA call...

Jcarr > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 20:10

I torque the lugs on my Jetta to the correct setting everytime and theyre still a complete bitch to get off the next time.

FromCanadaWithLove > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 20:20

Kinja'd!!!

When I had a Jetta, the key (from new) wore out after 3 uses. And that's 3 tires, not 3 sets of tires.

His Stigness > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 20:33

Is it really VW's fault that you can't find the key? VW's lock design is actually superior to the ones you get on an Asian car because the key doesn't break when you use an impact gun (which EVERYONE in a shop does).

His Stigness > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 20:36

No one torques the wheels properly. I can't tell you how many lug nuts that I get that are way over tightened. I think the biggest torque I've seen (that wasn't a center lock wheel) was like 150 ft lbs. But more often than not I have to put my 3/8 gun down, which has 350 ft pounds of breakaway torque, and get my 1/2 gun out; it's fucking stupid.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > His Stigness
10/19/2014 at 21:31

I can't find it? Oh no, I found it...it's in VW Special Tool# T4004. Which is dealer only. ABC 6, 17 spline design. I never got the key when I bought the car from the previous owner.

Audi part number is 8D0-601-139-F- 006. VW has part number WHT-003-319-A-006. But the freaking dealer wouldn't sell the individual key. I would have to buy a set, and then they admitted that there's no guarantee I'd get the 17 spline version (There are over 10 versions with differing amounts of splines).

So, in a round about way...Yes. It IS their fault.

sortofindian > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 22:06

News flash, all lug nuts are put on with shop air and impacts. It's the corrosion that makes them hard to remove

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 23:05

i don't know if it counts, I would vote ATE rear brakes as the worst design. Stupid screw system to pull back cylinder and a brake line connection that is nearly impossible to connect

Kinja'd!!!

His Stigness > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/19/2014 at 23:56

Okay yeah that's VW's fault...

And this is why I HATE wheel locks, and why I took them off my Golf as soon as I bought the car a few years ago.

His Stigness > sortofindian
10/19/2014 at 23:57

No, it's idiot technicians not using torque limiting extensions and not torquing them to the correct spec.

sortofindian > His Stigness
10/21/2014 at 19:39

You probably don't work in a shop or you would realize everyone uses torque sticks. You probably also have never worked on a car or you would know that it can take much more torque to remove a fastener than was used to install it. Due to... corrosion

His Stigness > sortofindian
10/21/2014 at 23:59

I'm a certified master technician. Thanks.

And I know from personal experience that if the shop air is jacked way up, torque sticks still allow your to overnighten fasteners.

And, I live in southern California, where we don't get rain, so corrosion is not an issue. And even when there is corrosion, it's not going to glue the lugs to the hub.

Thanks for sharing.

sortofindian > His Stigness
10/22/2014 at 21:40

I'm glad you passed the same multiple choice tests to me a master. Have you tested the torque after using a torque stick? I have, never been able to get one over 120 ft. lbs no matter the setting of the gun.

If you live in a place that doesn't have corrosion how can you say what it will or will not do?

Maybe learn about corrosion before sharing.

His Stigness > sortofindian
10/22/2014 at 21:49

The only "test" I do is to go back with a torque wrench and put them to the correct torque. As I told someone else I use a 3/8 gun instead of a heavier more powerful 1/2, and I never overnighten them, but if I use a 1/2 gun and a torque stick with the gun turned down, it's overnightened.

Also, like I told someone else, most of the cars I work on have wheels so tight my 3/8 gun, with over 300 ft/lbs of breakaway torque can't take them off, I have to get my 1/2 gun, and this is on cars with a factory spec of 90 ft/lbs or less. That happens because dumb shits use their 1/2 guns, with the shop air jacked up, and the gun turned all they way up.

I've gotten cars that are from snow states, and the lugs are never stuck on, but the wheels will be. BMW's are notorious for this, even in SoCal. "Corrosion" is just your way of describing lugs that have been overnightened.

His Stigness > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/22/2014 at 21:50

Would you say the bolts were "corroded," or just overnightened? Dumbshit sortofindian is blaming your issue (and the same problem I have everyday at work) on "corrosion."

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > His Stigness
10/23/2014 at 08:41

Surface corrosion will increase the amount of torque required to loosen a fastener, that part is true, but consider the magnitude.

Most wheel bolts are torqued to 80-90 ft-lbs. Let's take the example of one of the 6 point bolts on the S4. As part of trying to remove it, I was using a 1/2 drive impact gun at 90psi. Wouldn't even budge it. When the compressor regulator spiked the pressure back to 90 after dropping it (it's only a 10gal tank, so not out of the question. I'm going to a larger compressor once I build the shop out back), it blew a seal on the impact gun's air path (It's also a HF impact gun, so no big loss, and not unexpected).

Strike one, doesn't come out with a HF 1/2 drive impact gun.

So I resorted to my old breaker bar. It's a 16 inch bar, 1/2 inch drive. I put a 17mm impact socket on it, and proceeded to apply force. Probably in part due to age, and in part due to force, the U joint on the bar failed.

Strike two, doesn't come out with a 16 inch bar with probably close to 125lbf on it.

Off we go to the Mack Daddy 25 inch breaker bar (call it two feet long for sake of argument). At full force, I can push with about 150lbf. This finally caused the bolt to let go.

The arithmetic is left as an exercise for the reader.

There is no way in hell corrosion will cause the required loosening torque to multiply by a rough factor of 3. Maybe if your corrosion was an actual JB weld, but not oxidation.

His Stigness > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
10/23/2014 at 13:27

And that's exactly my point. I've never gotten a car that had obvious signs of "corrosion" that had stuck bolts. But I also have a 1/2 gun with over 1200 ft pounds of breakaway torque, and I haven't met a bolt yet I can't get off with it.

sortofindian > His Stigness
10/24/2014 at 19:13

Again, you don't understand that it can take more torque to remove a fastener than was applied to tighten it. I know you want the last word and if those words are "I don't understand how corrosion works" then it would be appropriate for you to have the last word

His Stigness > sortofindian
10/24/2014 at 22:10

Yes, it takes more force to remove a bolt then was used to fasten it, but you are still blaming nonexistent corrosion. The argument I'm making is that almost every technician over-tightens lug nuts, even when they're using torque sticks.

When there is corrosion present though, it does take a shit load more torque to break the bolt or nut loose, but I have never seen a car with lug nuts that were exponentially harder to remove because of corrosion, even if the car has been sitting for a while, lug nuts, and lug bolts just aren't exposed in a way to make them susceptible to it.

But, that doesn't mean shit doesn't happen. But in this case, it wasn't corrosion.

Eli's Got 2 > His Stigness
10/24/2014 at 22:31

I can't stop laughing at this.

His Stigness > Eli's Got 2
10/25/2014 at 00:25

lol. I hope you're laughing at him and not me.

Eli's Got 2 > His Stigness
10/25/2014 at 02:42

Strangler.... I'm laughing at the context of the conversation. But, I will always have your back.

His Stigness > Eli's Got 2
10/25/2014 at 03:23

God damn creeper!

It is pretty funny since he won't give up, and neither will I; I fight to the death!

sortofindian > His Stigness
10/25/2014 at 10:10

You were there to inspect his lugs for corrosion?

You already said you don't live an area with corrosion so I'm not sure why you think you know about it.

I had to get a fat guy on the end of a 3/4 breaker bar to get multiple Vovlo lugs loose and you think an impact can torque that high?

Come work in the midwest with salt and weekly uses of the "blue wrench" and maybe your opinion would have some information forming it.

It's called galvanic corrosion. It's why anti-seize exists.

Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it's not true

Eli's Got 2 > His Stigness
10/25/2014 at 11:31

LOLz! So, it's a torque stick measuring contest to see who has the tightest lug nuts? I'm so confused. Aaaaaahaha

His Stigness > Eli's Got 2
10/25/2014 at 16:42

Haha yeah. My lugs nuts are properly tightened, they're not too loose, and they're not too tight.

Eli's Got 2 > His Stigness
10/25/2014 at 16:50

You mean, they're not hanging loose? I. CAN'T. EVEN.

His Stigness > Eli's Got 2
10/25/2014 at 17:38

Lol, well nuts are different than lug nuts. Nuts are always.... Nope, can't do it, can't think of anything clever. Damn.

Eli's Got 2 > His Stigness
10/25/2014 at 17:41

Hahaha. CREEPER WINS! It's 2-1. You're up one for Big Bang. LOL My W is so much better.

His Stigness > Eli's Got 2
10/25/2014 at 22:17

Lol. I think one of your points should be deducted on account of your Ebola.